ASC light

[tsitalon1]

I haven't installed my Z-chip yet...will shortly, however all the ASC light reports coming in are concerning me a bit.

Scott/Zeitronix,

Are you guys looking into a fix for this?

[lallen3]

We need to all pull together and do whatever we are able to come to a solid conclusion about the ASC system. I am going to pull codes today here in a couple of hours & find which DTC is set. Again, I encourage anyone who has the time, to pull a code (even at autozone or with a cheap-o code reader compatible with CAN) and report findings here. I have posted this elsewhere, but am awaiting info back from FQ-Performance about how they worked around these issues. If you're not able to pull codes, please at least your experience with issues here, including your traction settings and mods. Thanks!

[TTP Engineering]

If someone finds an affordable CAN-BUS compatible reader, please post a link.

[lallen3]

Unable to pull codes so far. Have a CAN/Mitsu scanner, just not up to date enough to bust into the SAWC or ASC/ABS...

[lallen3]

If someone finds an affordable CAN-BUS compatible reader, please post a link.


So far all I've come across are the cheap-o's that only read the engine under CAN. I even tried one from Matco, and Snap-On today which they claimed pulls ALL codes, but they didn't even "see" the ASC or ABS systems.

[lallen3]

A little more info: I don't normally do this, but as a test I neutral revved the engine in a quick sweep from idle 'till it bumped the rev-limiter. The EXACT moment the rev-limiter bounced, the "Service Required & ASC OFF" msg/lamp turned on. I removed the Zchip, and repeated the test, and the warnings were not displayed.

[TurboGard]

This issue will keep me from buying one for the time being. Let us know as this issue progresses.

Thanks,

[UFO]

A little more info: I don't normally do this, but as a test I neutral revved the engine in a quick sweep from idle 'till it bumped the rev-limiter. The EXACT moment the rev-limiter bounced, the "Service Required & ASC OFF" msg/lamp turned on. I removed the Zchip, and repeated the test, and the warnings were not displayed.

Apparently the car will throw an ASC service light if you free-rev regardless of Z-chip:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=365614

[TTP Engineering]

Apparently the car will throw an ASC service light if you free-rev regardless of Z-chip:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=365614

Thanks for sharing this info David.

[dkstas]

I don't think it has anything to do w/ the Z-chip. I currently do not have my chip installed (due to the recent snowfall here in Anchorage). But I have set-off the ASC warning on occasion w/ any abrupt throttling in the higher gears or running it hard at the drag strip. This past summer I took the car to the track, turned the ASC off, launched pretty hard (cut a 1.7 60ft), ASC warning came on and still managed to clock a 12.49 @ 110.06. The ASC warning thing is bothersome, but it wouldn't be something to stop me from buying the chip.

[Zeitronix]

We probably should include with the Zchip a little smiley face sticker to put over the ASC light. It will lit up when you drive hard with a lot of power http://forums.evolutionm.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Jokes aside, this is a very complex system. EVO X controls traction using hydraulic pressure. When hydraulics are out of range and cannot slow the inside wheel any further the car applies the brake to the inside wheel. It needs to work even harder if the suspension is modified with less travel, different tires, rims etc. A combination of more power from the Zchip, suspension, tires, hot/cold more/less grabby brakes, street surface makes car mad and activates ASC light. Even a stock car goes ape on ASC sometimes when reving up the engine or just taking a corner The traction control system is quite unpredictable and with all variables some see ASC, some do not. Regardless, we want to assure you we are taking this very seriously regardless if it's related to mitsu traction control operation or lack there of.

[lallen3]

Quick update after getting a few minutes with an ASC compatible CAN scanner.

ASC:

U1417- Implausible coding data from engine
C121C - Torque reduction request signal rejected

Engine:
P1235 - Mass Aiflow Sensor Plausibility ---Note, I had tweaked boost levels higher before this code set, so it may not pertain to the ASC issue.

[Capone]

Cool so it seems like all our assumptions of the ASC sending information to the ECU are correct. Now all they need to do is isolate the request and figure out how to trick the ecu into getting the correct response. Thanks for your diagnosis you rock!

[TTP Engineering]

Quick update after getting a few minutes with an ASC compatible CAN scanner.

ASC:

U1417- Implausible coding data from engine
C121C - Torque reduction request signal rejected

Engine:
P1235 - Mass Aiflow Sensor Plausibility ---Note, I had tweaked boost levels higher before this code set, so it may not pertain to the ASC issue.

The engine code is unrelated.

The C121C code appears it may be related to the MBC. Its possible that the ECU is trying to duty cycle the stock boost control solenoids to no avail.

C121C - Torque reduction request signal rejected
I find some humor in this code however.

Hell yeah its rejected! :lol:

[lallen3]

If you look at the stock BCS's, there are 2, and they are parallel to each other, so I guess if one fails to open, the second can accomplish the task of relieving pressure. Does the ECU use the MAP to determine where boost pressure is at, or does it have another sensor to monitor boost pressure? I ask, b/c if the MAP feeds boost pressure to the ECU, then perhaps a tweak to the mapping on the zchip may help- just hope it's not at the cost of performance.

[TTP Engineering]

If you look at the stock BCS's, there are 2, and they are parallel to each other, so I guess if one fails to open, the second can accomplish the task of relieving pressure. Does the ECU use the MAP to determine where boost pressure is at, or does it have another sensor to monitor boost pressure? I ask, b/c if the MAP feeds boost pressure to the ECU, then perhaps a tweak to the mapping on the zchip may help- just hope it's not at the cost of performance.

No, they work in parallel. They both do the same thing at the same time.

[lallen3]

No, they work in parallel. They both do the same thing at the same time.
that's exactly what I said. + if one got stuck closed, the other would accomplish the same task.

Anyway, my question was really about the way the ECU reads boost pressure, so.... yeah.....

[TurboGard]

You live in Anchorage and you're not worried about the ASC turning itself off?! Do you have a death wish? I live in Louisiana and the last snow we got was measured in flakes not inches, but I'd still like to utilize the phenomenal ASC Mitsubishi has engineered. I autocross once a month or so and it really makes difference having it on.

Sorry, this is in response to the comment from the previous page from dkstas. A little delayed, I know.

[dkstas]

You live in Anchorage and you're not worried about the ASC turning itself off?! Do you have a death wish? I live in Louisiana and the last snow we got was measured in flakes not inches, but I'd still like to utilize the phenomenal ASC Mitsubishi has engineered. I autocross once a month or so and it really makes difference having it on.

Sorry, this is in response to the comment from the previous page from dkstas. A little delayed, I know.

The X is not my daily driver in the winter time. I'm talking about the drag strip and summer time. We also have autocross up here, but I'm not of fan of the courses, I would like to shift out of first gear, lol.

[tsitalon1]

Hey guys,

I have installed the Z-chip. My car is stock except for MBC and boost gauge.
Boost spikes to 24 settles at ~21-22 then dies to ~18 at 7600rpm.

I have driven the car 74 miles today with no problems at all. I repeat no ASC light, or any other warning of any kind.

Performance gain:

Feels great, I can tell the car picked up at least 75hp...I don't have easy access to a dyno to verify, but the butt-o-meter says ~75hp gain. I am also a little shy on boost compared to most people.

Pulls alot stronger to redline, It kinda feels like a 2-stroke the way the boost picks up so fast around 2500rpm.

Very happy with my purchase, Thanks TTP!

[Td66]

You live in Louisiana and you dont drive a boat, lived there 25 years! 1 more without a light, looks promising. Maybe your not getting into it hard enough for it to try and tell you to slow down. Drive faster!

[lallen3]

I hope addressing the ASC issue is still a priority.

My X is decommissioned for now, though.. Did a single pull from 0-80 & ASC warning popped on, accompanied by a loud noise & massive loss of trans/xfercase fluid, whining noises & a glowing red turbocharger..

[tsitalon1]

What the hell...You think failure is related to the chip?

[lallen3]

What the hell...You think failure is related to the chip?

I think the failure is related to having a big bump in whp. We need to keep the ASC discussion going, as it does impact safety features & S-AWC. I am still gathering data, as is TTP. Anyone inclined to help should jump in, even if it means trading base maps, etc.

[TTP Engineering]

As stated elsewhere by lallen3, he is an ASE Master Tech and pretty good with the analysis of mechanical components.

According to him, it appears his tcase may have been run down on fluid and had some type of failure.

[tsitalon1]

As stated elsewhere by lallen3, he is an ASE Master Tech and pretty good with the analysis of mechanical components.

According to him, it appears his tcase may have been run down on fluid and had some type of failure.


This is not an attack on anyone but how would an ASE Master Tech not notice the t-case leaking fluid? lallen3, can you confirm leaking T-case? Also, we know leaner a:f equals hotter exhaust, but red-hot turbo? I will also be driving the car easy until lallen3 reports back with root cause of tranny/tcase failure. Could ASC provide such a torque conflict as to damage the drivetrain?

[lallen3]

This is not an attack on anyone but how would an ASE Master Tech not notice the t-case leaking fluid? lallen3, can you confirm leaking T-case? Also, we know leaner a:f equals hotter exhaust, but red-hot turbo? I will also be driving the car easy until lallen3 reports back with root cause of tranny/tcase failure. Could ASC provide such a torque conflict as to damage the drivetrain?

You kind of touched on three issues here.

First issue: That's kind of like asking how an electrician didn't know the power was going to fail... Yes, I am a well credentialed technician, but as with any parts failure, I cannot predict a sudden failure, which is what I experienced. The leak began while driving. If there was a preexisting leak, I wouldn't have run the car [hard].

Second issue: As far as A/F ratio & the hot exhaust.. I have seen headers & cats glow on many-a-moon, but since turbo chargers on gasoline powered engines (not diesels) are new to me in the fact I now own one, I have [in the forums] learned a glowing turbo isn't out of the question, especially after a hard pull.

Third issue: ASC cannot bind the drivetrain in a manner that can cause a failure such as the one I personally experienced. I did research this issue. The root cause is still being determined, but keep in mind the car was driven [slowly] even after the failure occured.

[TTP Engineering]

GLOWING EVO MANIFOLD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scDGgxxsn18)

We have been doing this for a very long time.

Here is the list of personally owned turbo Mitsubishis I have owned.
Turbo's and manifolds glow when driven hard. Its a fact.

2008 Lancer Evo X WW
2005 Lancer Evo MR GG
2003 Lancer Evo GSR WW
1995 Talon TSi AWD
1995 Eclipse GS-T
1993 Talon TSi
1991 Galant VR-4 WW
1991 Galant VR-4 NBM
1990 Talon Tsi AWD

[tsitalon1]

You kind of touched on three issues here.

First issue: That's kind of like asking how an electrician didn't know the power was going to fail... Yes, I am a well credentialed technician, but as with any parts failure, I cannot predict a sudden failure, which is what I experienced. The leak began while driving. If there was a preexisting leak, I wouldn't have run the car [hard].

Second issue: As far as A/F ratio & the hot exhaust.. I have seen headers & cats glow on many-a-moon, but since turbo chargers on gasoline powered engines (not diesels) are new to me in the fact I now own one, I have [in the forums] learned a glowing turbo isn't out of the question, especially after a hard pull.

Third issue: ASC cannot bind the drivetrain in a manner that can cause a failure such as the one I personally experienced. I did research this issue. The root cause is still being determined, but keep in mind the car was driven [slowly] even after the failure occured.

Alright, this is slightly more concerning now. So in your experience, the Tranny/tcase were not leaking prior to THAT drive. I assume like me, you occasionally, pull the lower plastic off the car and inspect periodically.

If this is the case, the leak started during that particular drive. In which case could absolutely have caused your failure and is VERY SCARRY.

lallen3, maybe I missed it somewhere, but how many miles were on your car at that point? Did you change the tranny/tcase fluid at any point? All tires/wheels stock, no mismatch size anywhere? I know you know all this, I'm just asking for informational sake, and to better get a better idea of what could of happened.

The red hot turbo, I have seen in the past. So I'm not TOO concerned, just didn't know if it was normal on an X as I don't have a way to view it easily since my heatshield is still on it.

[lallen3]

Alright, this is slightly more concerning now. So in your experience, the Tranny/tcase were not leaking prior to THAT drive. I assume like me, you occasionally, pull the lower plastic off the car and inspect periodically.

If this is the case, the leak started during that particular drive. In which case could absolutely have caused your failure and is VERY SCARRY.

lallen3, maybe I missed it somewhere, but how many miles were on your car at that point? Did you change the tranny/tcase fluid at any point? All tires/wheels stock, no mismatch size anywhere? I know you know all this, I'm just asking for informational sake, and to better get a better idea of what could of happened.

The red hot turbo, I have seen in the past. So I'm not TOO concerned, just didn't know if it was normal on an X as I don't have a way to view it easily since my heatshield is still on it.

The car hasn't accrued enough miles for the first oil change yet.... So pretty low mileage. I bought the car in August and don't drive it every day. There were NO leaks prior to the day of failure. Car/wheel/tires/paint/radio antenna ;) are all stock. The only mods were CAI/Zchip/MBC/Upper pipe.
I'm sure it's just a defective part, but I will let everyone know on Monday.

[lallen3]

Update: The Tcase output shaft seal failed, causing the fluid loss. Because the Tcase IS the center differential, it has to be replaced as a unit due to clutches overheating and bearing damage. 8 days until I get car back, beginning today. :eek:

[Sicks]

Dizzamn... is warranty covering it?

[lallen3]

Dizzamn... is warranty covering it?

Yeah, it's covered. Just need to get a decent rental going. :D

[tsitalon1]

ASC LIGHT ON ECUTEK VERIFIED:



http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/sho...?t=9230&page=3



Post #30

If link doesn't work try evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9230&page=3